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I found your website and have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the information you have provided. I have a question about my 9 week old baby female parrotlet. I have had her for three weeks now, she was shipped to me via airplane. She is very active, eats well, drinks more than any bird I have seen, has attitude and seems healthy but her droppings are very watery. There is still the fecal matter but lots of moisture as well, sometimes there is nothing solid. Would you have any advice or comments for me. I phoned vets and they said as long as she is eating and drinking she should be ok. Just concerned cause I fell in love with her on sight and don't think watery droppings are a good sign. I have held off giving her fruit and vegetables in case that is the cause. She eats cockatiel mix of birdseed, I am trying to get her onto pellets but it is a slow process.
Bev
Dear Bev:
Unfortunately, no one can diagnose your bird without examining it. I am very surprised that a vet wouldn’t know that. I wouldn’t let a doctor diagnose my medical condition over the phone and I am shocked we now have vets that are doing that.
I will tell you that only a vet can examine the bird and check it to see if this situation is normal. I certainly can’t. A sample needs to be taken at least have it checked out for parasites or fungal/bacterial infections or worse, since this bird is so young, a congenital problem especially with kidneys. I can’t see the droppings to know if they are too watery or not but I do know that a) your instincts are the best and b) if you are concerned, you need to have the bird examined. Fruits and vegetables – which should make up 60-70% of a parrotlet’s diet will make the droppings somewhat more watery but not anything that should concern you. After all, they eat produce in the wild and its part of their natural diet – pellets are not. Furthermore parrotlets are not birds that drink a lot of water since they originate in a dry, desert-like area. Most parrotlets drink no more than a tablespoon of water a day. In 30 years, the only birds I have had that drink more than that either have chicks to feed or have had kidney problems. Your bird could also have diabetes – something I am finding that is more and more common in parrotlets so if you are concerned about this bird, I would take it to a veterinarian competent in avian medicine and if you don’t know one, go to the Association of Avian Veterinarians www.aav.org and you can find a vet in your area. As for pellets, I have a page on my site about my observations and reports on birds fed primarily pelleted diets but the one thing you need to understand is if your bird has some kind of kidney issue pellets will make that worse. I would at least have the droppings checked under a microscope and also have blood checked for kidney disease and diabetes.
Best of luck and please let me know how it goes.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
Join the International Parrotlet Society, – the World’s Largest and Oldest Parrotlet Organization www.internationalparrotletsociety.org
A Chattering Bird Builds No Nest.
Camaroonian Phrase
Showing posts with label Kidney Disease. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Kidney Disease. Show all posts
Saturday, July 30, 2011
Friday, June 3, 2011
Pellets & Color Mutation Parrotlets
Hello,
I have a blue mutation parrotlet named Izzy. He’s about three months old. I am very confused about what to feed him. The breeder gave us a diet that includes pellets, Goldenfeast, and a dried mixture to cook that includes beans, dried carrots, seeds and nuts. The vet thinks that there’s too much fat in the diet, and wants him to eat mostly pellets and fresh or cooked vegetables (so far he won’t touch them, he just picks out the seeds), with a small amount of the less fatty seeds. On the other hand, I keep reading about suspected issues with mutations and pellets. The breeder says that she’s never had a problem.
I don’t know what to do. I would like to find documentation to give the (avian) vet on the kidney issue with pellets, but so far all the evidence I can find is anecdotal. So I have two questions. First, what would your advice be on feeding Izzy, and second , do you know where I can find documentation such as studies on this issue? The anecdotal evidence seems suggestive, but the vet is (rightly ) going to want something more objective. I would feel better myself with stricter evidence.
You have probably gone over this in the past, so I’m sorry to ask it again if you have.
Thanks for your time,
Raisl
Dear Raisl:
Thank you for your email. If I had a dime for every time I have had to discuss this issue and that includes my chapters in books, magazine articles I’ve written, web-pages I’ve published, seminars I’ve given, countless phone and in person conversations and hundreds of emails, I would be almost as rich as the pellet manufacturers. However, because there is so much misinformation and misunderstandings about this subject, I am happy to answer the question again. I am going to go into the history and basic understanding of parrot nutrition and the invention of pellets and you can make your own decision about it.
There are over 350 different species of parrots and over 9,000 species of birds. The only concrete information we have on bird nutrition is for poultry not companion birds. In fact, in hook bills, the only species we know anything about as far as nutritional requirements are lysine in cockatiels. These studies were done by Dr. Tom Roudybush (one of the few vets who is also an avian nutritionist) back in the 1980s. No other studies have been done. This is because if you can find an university doing research on companion birds its for diseases not nutrition. Even then, any honest vet will tell you that disease diagnosis and treatment is more of an art than a science. Nutrition studies are done by commercial food manufacturers, i.e., the pellet distributors. To say they have a conflict of interest when it comes to bias in this area is a gross understatement. That would be like having tobacco companies fund cancer research.
I have bred birds for almost 30 years and witnessed both the advent of pellets and the certification of vets with regard to avian medicine. It doesn’t mean I know more than vets but it certainly does give me both the opportunity for empirical (not anecdotal) data as well as remember why pellets were invented in the first place. Very simply it was for commercial use in making the feeding of caged birds the same as feeding dogs and cats. Of course, this is impossible since, again there are more than 350 species of parrots and only 1 species of dogs and cats. Pellet manufacturers felt that the correct feeding of birds – a diet made up primarily of whole foods (including seeds) but also fruit, vegetables, sprouts, whole grains and legumes was ‘too much work’ by bird owners. They decided if they could make a diet you can simply pour in a bowl they would deal with the usual problem with seed diets, which is the lack of vitamin A and in some species such as Amazons and cockatoos, the high fat content that often leads to fatty liver syndrome. Btw, when most parrotlets are diagnosed with fatty liver syndrome it is usually related to toxins and over vitaminization or medication not diet. So the invention of pellets was really for the convenience of the owners and breeders and, of course, to open up the market so feed companies could make a lot of money. Nothing wrong with that but if you think they were doing something altruistic to help make birds healthy that is incorrect.
One thing a lot of people do not realize is that pellets are made from seed, and it is almost always corn. Corn is one of the least nutritious grains on the planet and it is mostly made up of sugar. I myself do not eat corn for that reason. Moreover, in birds, it is not a natural food. But it is cheap and plentiful. There is one pellet, ironically the one promoted by vets, that is not made from corn. It is made from sunflower seeds. The same dreaded sunflower seeds that vets claim has too much fat when it is in whole form but apparently its ok when it has been processed into a pellet – or perhaps that has more to do with the monetary incentive that vets get for selling that pellet.
In any event, when you are told to feed pellets instead of seed, you are still feeding seed. Highly processed, artificially colored, flavored, often full of preservatives and vitaminized seed. We know with humans that processed foods are not recommended for top nutrition. This is true for just about all animals and it certainly must be true for birds. Birds have better eyesight than humans, they have a sense of smell, have a sensitive tongue for feeling textures and can taste food. I know I wouldn’t like living on something like “Ensure” even thought it is ‘nutritionally complete’ and I’m sure our birds wouldn’t like it either. More importantly, you will not convince me that drinking a highly processed, overly vitaminized, artificially flavored and colored food like Ensure is better for me than say a bowl of fresh salad made with lots of leafy greens, vegetables and lean protein. It also is more interesting and tastes better which adds to my enjoyment and well-being. I would say my birds would feel the same.
On another interesting note, since I know almost all the owners of feed companies personally, the honest ones have told me “Sandee, if you are feeding fresh fruit, vegetables, whole grains, cooked legumes, sprouted seed, supplements such as bee pollen and calcium in addition to whole seeds, we can’t make a pellet that nutritious. We make pellets for people who either can’t or won’t take the time to feed their birds whole fresh foods.”
As for the issues with mutations, I have dozens of necropsy reports and had countless (off the record of course) conversations with vets, biologists and researchers and they have documented the problems with color mutations and the kidney problems. These have been given to me in confidence so I will not share them nor will I give the names of the vets who have entrusted to me their opinions. My feeling is that it really doesn’t matter. The fact is I have yet to have anyone convince me that feeding highly processed artificially flavored, colored and preserved seed is a better diet than feeding one rich in fresh whole foods including seeds, irregardless of the uric acid problems in mutations. I know I don’t eat that way and I’m not going to feed my birds that way. After all, there are no pellet trees in the wild.
I hope you understand I’m not trying to tell you how to feed your bird. Only you can make that decision. However, you should have all the facts available so you can make appropriate decision for you and your bird. You asked my opinion and the reasons therefore and I hope this meets your expectations. Best of luck to you and your bird.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
Join the International Parrotlet Society, – the World’s Largest and Oldest Parrotlet Organization www.internationalparrotletsociety.org
A Chattering Bird Builds No Nest.
Camaroonian Phrase
I have a blue mutation parrotlet named Izzy. He’s about three months old. I am very confused about what to feed him. The breeder gave us a diet that includes pellets, Goldenfeast, and a dried mixture to cook that includes beans, dried carrots, seeds and nuts. The vet thinks that there’s too much fat in the diet, and wants him to eat mostly pellets and fresh or cooked vegetables (so far he won’t touch them, he just picks out the seeds), with a small amount of the less fatty seeds. On the other hand, I keep reading about suspected issues with mutations and pellets. The breeder says that she’s never had a problem.
I don’t know what to do. I would like to find documentation to give the (avian) vet on the kidney issue with pellets, but so far all the evidence I can find is anecdotal. So I have two questions. First, what would your advice be on feeding Izzy, and second , do you know where I can find documentation such as studies on this issue? The anecdotal evidence seems suggestive, but the vet is (rightly ) going to want something more objective. I would feel better myself with stricter evidence.
You have probably gone over this in the past, so I’m sorry to ask it again if you have.
Thanks for your time,
Raisl
Dear Raisl:
Thank you for your email. If I had a dime for every time I have had to discuss this issue and that includes my chapters in books, magazine articles I’ve written, web-pages I’ve published, seminars I’ve given, countless phone and in person conversations and hundreds of emails, I would be almost as rich as the pellet manufacturers. However, because there is so much misinformation and misunderstandings about this subject, I am happy to answer the question again. I am going to go into the history and basic understanding of parrot nutrition and the invention of pellets and you can make your own decision about it.
There are over 350 different species of parrots and over 9,000 species of birds. The only concrete information we have on bird nutrition is for poultry not companion birds. In fact, in hook bills, the only species we know anything about as far as nutritional requirements are lysine in cockatiels. These studies were done by Dr. Tom Roudybush (one of the few vets who is also an avian nutritionist) back in the 1980s. No other studies have been done. This is because if you can find an university doing research on companion birds its for diseases not nutrition. Even then, any honest vet will tell you that disease diagnosis and treatment is more of an art than a science. Nutrition studies are done by commercial food manufacturers, i.e., the pellet distributors. To say they have a conflict of interest when it comes to bias in this area is a gross understatement. That would be like having tobacco companies fund cancer research.
I have bred birds for almost 30 years and witnessed both the advent of pellets and the certification of vets with regard to avian medicine. It doesn’t mean I know more than vets but it certainly does give me both the opportunity for empirical (not anecdotal) data as well as remember why pellets were invented in the first place. Very simply it was for commercial use in making the feeding of caged birds the same as feeding dogs and cats. Of course, this is impossible since, again there are more than 350 species of parrots and only 1 species of dogs and cats. Pellet manufacturers felt that the correct feeding of birds – a diet made up primarily of whole foods (including seeds) but also fruit, vegetables, sprouts, whole grains and legumes was ‘too much work’ by bird owners. They decided if they could make a diet you can simply pour in a bowl they would deal with the usual problem with seed diets, which is the lack of vitamin A and in some species such as Amazons and cockatoos, the high fat content that often leads to fatty liver syndrome. Btw, when most parrotlets are diagnosed with fatty liver syndrome it is usually related to toxins and over vitaminization or medication not diet. So the invention of pellets was really for the convenience of the owners and breeders and, of course, to open up the market so feed companies could make a lot of money. Nothing wrong with that but if you think they were doing something altruistic to help make birds healthy that is incorrect.
One thing a lot of people do not realize is that pellets are made from seed, and it is almost always corn. Corn is one of the least nutritious grains on the planet and it is mostly made up of sugar. I myself do not eat corn for that reason. Moreover, in birds, it is not a natural food. But it is cheap and plentiful. There is one pellet, ironically the one promoted by vets, that is not made from corn. It is made from sunflower seeds. The same dreaded sunflower seeds that vets claim has too much fat when it is in whole form but apparently its ok when it has been processed into a pellet – or perhaps that has more to do with the monetary incentive that vets get for selling that pellet.
In any event, when you are told to feed pellets instead of seed, you are still feeding seed. Highly processed, artificially colored, flavored, often full of preservatives and vitaminized seed. We know with humans that processed foods are not recommended for top nutrition. This is true for just about all animals and it certainly must be true for birds. Birds have better eyesight than humans, they have a sense of smell, have a sensitive tongue for feeling textures and can taste food. I know I wouldn’t like living on something like “Ensure” even thought it is ‘nutritionally complete’ and I’m sure our birds wouldn’t like it either. More importantly, you will not convince me that drinking a highly processed, overly vitaminized, artificially flavored and colored food like Ensure is better for me than say a bowl of fresh salad made with lots of leafy greens, vegetables and lean protein. It also is more interesting and tastes better which adds to my enjoyment and well-being. I would say my birds would feel the same.
On another interesting note, since I know almost all the owners of feed companies personally, the honest ones have told me “Sandee, if you are feeding fresh fruit, vegetables, whole grains, cooked legumes, sprouted seed, supplements such as bee pollen and calcium in addition to whole seeds, we can’t make a pellet that nutritious. We make pellets for people who either can’t or won’t take the time to feed their birds whole fresh foods.”
As for the issues with mutations, I have dozens of necropsy reports and had countless (off the record of course) conversations with vets, biologists and researchers and they have documented the problems with color mutations and the kidney problems. These have been given to me in confidence so I will not share them nor will I give the names of the vets who have entrusted to me their opinions. My feeling is that it really doesn’t matter. The fact is I have yet to have anyone convince me that feeding highly processed artificially flavored, colored and preserved seed is a better diet than feeding one rich in fresh whole foods including seeds, irregardless of the uric acid problems in mutations. I know I don’t eat that way and I’m not going to feed my birds that way. After all, there are no pellet trees in the wild.
I hope you understand I’m not trying to tell you how to feed your bird. Only you can make that decision. However, you should have all the facts available so you can make appropriate decision for you and your bird. You asked my opinion and the reasons therefore and I hope this meets your expectations. Best of luck to you and your bird.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
Join the International Parrotlet Society, – the World’s Largest and Oldest Parrotlet Organization www.internationalparrotletsociety.org
A Chattering Bird Builds No Nest.
Camaroonian Phrase
Parrotlet Chewing Feathers
Hi Sandee,
I just wanted to give you an update on Tommaso. I took him to the avian vet here in Placerville this morning for his chewing of his wings. She checked his stool and it was okay. His weight and muscle was good as well. She took a smear and a culture. The culture won’t be ready for a couple of days. She did call me tonight about the smear and said she was real surprised that she found Spiral Bacteria in the smear she took. He shows no symptoms and she said feather chewing is not a symptom of this. She is going to wait to see what the culture shows before doing anything. She said otherwise he is a very healthy happy bird from the outside. I did tell her that I had put a coconut in his cage about 3 weeks ago. She suggested to be on the safe side to remove the coconut because there might be something in there that can cause him to chew his wing feathers that might be irritating him. You only could tell they are chewed when he spreads his wings, otherwise you can’t tell anything is wrong with his wings. The vet said, regardless with what’s causing him to chew his feathers, that the Spiral Bacteria needs to be treated with antibiotics. UGH! Tommaso has never lived with any other birds, so I’m baffled. Any thoughts with your experience on this bacteria? I don’t want something to happen to Tommaso down the road if I don’t do something now about it since he has no symptoms. Can this bacteria be inside a bird and not show symptoms or sit dormant? I know you mentioned you don’t like giving medicine to birds.
Thanks in advance,
Maureen
Dear Maureen:
Glad to hear you brought the bird to a vet. However, I am concerned since there is no “bacterium’ called ‘spiral bacteria’. That is a description. Not a name. Also, you can’t see ‘bacteria’ under a microscope. It has to be grown on a culture. My belief is that you vet is seeing a fungus called Avian Gastric Yeast (formerly 'megabacteria') which is a normal fungus found in the gut. It is not a problem unless the bird is having pathogenic issues such as weight loss, dehydration, passing of seed in the stool, etc. None of which is an issue with your bird. Also, since AGY is a fungus and not a bacteria it is NOT treated with antibiotics. In fact, antibiotics can cause other yeast and fungal problems especially cyprofloxin and Baytril (same drug btw). AGY is usually treated with an antifungal called “Amphotericin B” which is no longer manufactured and must be made by a compounding pharmacy.
It is also possible the bird may have giardia. Giardia, a water-born parasite that can be seen under a microscope and that can cause feather destructive issues. It is also not treated with antibiotics but is treated with Flagyl.
So, to be honest I really have no idea what is going on with your bird since none of this makes sense. As for not giving medicine to birds, I have no problem with it when there is a definitive diagnosis and a correct course of treatment for the problem. I do NOT believe in the ‘scattershot’ approach of just throwing a bunch of medicine at a bird and hoping you get it right. If the vet said the cultures show that your bird had an e.coli infection and prescribed antibiotics that would be appropriate. However, in this case I would be very cautious and ask a lot of questions. I’m not saying not to listen to your vet – I’m just saying that if this were my bird, I would be asking a lot more questions before I just started treating. I have seen too many parrotlets develop liver disease and kidney failure after being over treated with very powerful antibiotics or being prescribed medication that is unnecessary.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
Join the International Parrotlet Society, – the World’s Largest and Oldest Parrotlet Organization www.internationalparrotletsociety.org
A Chattering Bird Builds No Nest.
Camaroonian Phrase
I just wanted to give you an update on Tommaso. I took him to the avian vet here in Placerville this morning for his chewing of his wings. She checked his stool and it was okay. His weight and muscle was good as well. She took a smear and a culture. The culture won’t be ready for a couple of days. She did call me tonight about the smear and said she was real surprised that she found Spiral Bacteria in the smear she took. He shows no symptoms and she said feather chewing is not a symptom of this. She is going to wait to see what the culture shows before doing anything. She said otherwise he is a very healthy happy bird from the outside. I did tell her that I had put a coconut in his cage about 3 weeks ago. She suggested to be on the safe side to remove the coconut because there might be something in there that can cause him to chew his wing feathers that might be irritating him. You only could tell they are chewed when he spreads his wings, otherwise you can’t tell anything is wrong with his wings. The vet said, regardless with what’s causing him to chew his feathers, that the Spiral Bacteria needs to be treated with antibiotics. UGH! Tommaso has never lived with any other birds, so I’m baffled. Any thoughts with your experience on this bacteria? I don’t want something to happen to Tommaso down the road if I don’t do something now about it since he has no symptoms. Can this bacteria be inside a bird and not show symptoms or sit dormant? I know you mentioned you don’t like giving medicine to birds.
Thanks in advance,
Maureen
Dear Maureen:
Glad to hear you brought the bird to a vet. However, I am concerned since there is no “bacterium’ called ‘spiral bacteria’. That is a description. Not a name. Also, you can’t see ‘bacteria’ under a microscope. It has to be grown on a culture. My belief is that you vet is seeing a fungus called Avian Gastric Yeast (formerly 'megabacteria') which is a normal fungus found in the gut. It is not a problem unless the bird is having pathogenic issues such as weight loss, dehydration, passing of seed in the stool, etc. None of which is an issue with your bird. Also, since AGY is a fungus and not a bacteria it is NOT treated with antibiotics. In fact, antibiotics can cause other yeast and fungal problems especially cyprofloxin and Baytril (same drug btw). AGY is usually treated with an antifungal called “Amphotericin B” which is no longer manufactured and must be made by a compounding pharmacy.
It is also possible the bird may have giardia. Giardia, a water-born parasite that can be seen under a microscope and that can cause feather destructive issues. It is also not treated with antibiotics but is treated with Flagyl.
So, to be honest I really have no idea what is going on with your bird since none of this makes sense. As for not giving medicine to birds, I have no problem with it when there is a definitive diagnosis and a correct course of treatment for the problem. I do NOT believe in the ‘scattershot’ approach of just throwing a bunch of medicine at a bird and hoping you get it right. If the vet said the cultures show that your bird had an e.coli infection and prescribed antibiotics that would be appropriate. However, in this case I would be very cautious and ask a lot of questions. I’m not saying not to listen to your vet – I’m just saying that if this were my bird, I would be asking a lot more questions before I just started treating. I have seen too many parrotlets develop liver disease and kidney failure after being over treated with very powerful antibiotics or being prescribed medication that is unnecessary.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
Join the International Parrotlet Society, – the World’s Largest and Oldest Parrotlet Organization www.internationalparrotletsociety.org
A Chattering Bird Builds No Nest.
Camaroonian Phrase
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