Sandee-
I read that the blue mutation of Pacific Parrotlets have gentler dispositions than original greens, and that the yellow Pacifics are particularly feisty. Do you find that the color mutations have any identifiable personalities traits linked to them? Or do you think people are taking experience from maybe one or two Parrotlets they have known, and making a generalized statement?
Thanks for your help,
Kathleen
Dear Kathleen:
Thank you so much for your email. This is an excellent question and I really appreciate you asking it.
I’ve kept and bred parrotlets for almost 30 years and have bred hundreds and seen thousands. I preface my answer with that fact because I do believe the less birds you have the more ‘sure’ you are of their behavior. The longer you keep birds and the more you have, you realize that they are all individuals and that, just like with people or dogs, you can’t make generalizations about individuals based on generic information. Most people who have a bird and its sweet will make that statement about all of them that are like that. If you have a blue or a dilute (formerly yellow) and it’s a wonderful bird, it is human nature to attribute its pet quality on physical characteristics. That really isn’t true. The best pet birds are the ones who personalities lend themselves to enjoy the company of humans, whether or not they have been strongly imprinted (i.e., ‘socialized’), how they are trained and how they are kept. Those things have a far greater influence on behavior than species, sex or color.
I do believe that is part of why people think that certain mutations are ‘sweeter’ than normal birds (although good luck trying to find any Pacific parrotlet that doesn’t have some mutation gene in its background). However, I do have a theory that mutations are often considered ‘sweeter’ because in the wild they do not survive long enough to develop much of a survival instinct. They are aberrations of Nature and it is inherent in Nature to have survival of the fittest. A blue or yellow parrotlet is going to stick out like a sore thumb in a place that has predominantly green foliage and therefore are much easier to prey upon than a normal green parrotlet. That is if the parents don’t kill them when they are in the nest. Therefore, I don’t believe these birds survive long enough to either develop a more aggressive nature which is needed to survive in the harsh environment where Pacific parrotlets are found nor do I believe they have much of an opportunity to breed even if they make it to maturity. After all, in the wild, like breeds with like. If you are green, you are not going to gravitate naturally to a yellow or blue bird. Nature doesn’t design birds that way – if so, hybridization would be rampant in the natural world. In captivity, of course, those instincts go out the window when mature, adult, healthy birds of the opposite sex are paired together. Just ask anyone who has a male and a female as pets and they end up breeding. Nature designed the need to perpetuate the species first and foremost.
So, to answer your question, I don’t believe, based on my experience, that color mutations per se are sweeter or make better pets. I just believe the statement is attributed to human interpretation of a very limited personal experience and the fact that Nature didn’t give these guys the instinct needed to survive in the wild. That doesn’t make them ‘sweeter’ it just makes them less inclined to use survival skills (like biting) when being handled.
Hope this makes sense and thanks again for the question.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
Join the International Parrotlet Society, – the World’s Largest and Oldest Parrotlet Organization www.internationalparrotletsociety.org
A Chattering Bird Builds No Nest.
Camaroonian Phrase
Showing posts with label Hybrids. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Hybrids. Show all posts
Thursday, May 5, 2011
Sunday, February 20, 2011
Identifying These Parrotlets




HI I have been given your email as im confussed about what speices I have. I was sold 3 pairs of delicate parrotlets. (one dilute hen being there!)
All hens are deffinate GR delictaes. But one cock bird has alot of blue (and has heavier to hold!) his rump and wings have alot of bright blue and i noticed an emeradl wash near the eyes. Attached are the only pictures I have taken, I will take more when i move them outside when weather gets better (don't want to stress them out too much) The other cocks are deffinate green rumps they have theire green rumps with the blue 'wash'. and the wings dont show as much blue in as this unknown cock bird.
Hope you can help!!!
Many thanks
Hayley x
Dear Hayley:
Thank you for sending me these pictures. I do believe you have cause for concern. I bred wild-caught Green Rump deliciosus and these birds are too big to be pure species. The largest of the deliciosus should be no more than 20 grams – 18 is the average. Also, deliciosus should have very tiny little beaks, which these birds do not have. Hens should have a lot more yellow above the cere and it should be much brighter. They should also be a softer paler green. The blue is much too dark and much too prominent on the male and the tiny bit of feathering around the eye of the male, along with their deeper coloring, lack of bright yellow on the hen and the long, slender beaks make me think these birds are hybrids crossed with Spectacles.
I am sorry. I wish I had better news for you but it is my opinion that these birds are not pure Green Rumps, let alone deliciosus and that the other species is Spectacled.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
Join the International Parrotlet Society, – the World’s Largest and Oldest Parrotlet Organization www.internationalparrotletsociety.org
A Chattering Bird Builds No Nest.
Camaroonian Phrase
Friday, September 24, 2010
Pacific Parrotlet/Yellow Face Hybrids
Hi Sandee,
What a pleasure to "meet" you today! I am forwarding the pictures of my two hens, Lauper and Abby, Abby being the one I believe to be hybrid. I hope these are good enough but I can take new ones if need better pics.
I await your feedback and guidance. Again, many thanks for taking the time to help, it is greatly appreciated!
Kind Regards,
Didi
Thank you for the pictures. In my opinion, they are both hybrids between Pacifics and Yellow Face. Abby is probably about 90% Pacific; I’d say that Lauper has more YF – but is also a hybrid. I’d say probably 50%-60% Pacific. Hope this helps!
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
WOW!!!
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. I am disappointed but grateful for the information. I guess I should stop thinking about breeding them, even Lauper, if she's not yellow faced, the whole point of me breeding them was to try to help the conservation efforts of these little guys!
May I pick your brain as to what made you see the pacific in her? I know I am but a novice, and to my untrained eye, she looked like a full yellow faced, but haha, I've only ever seen them in pictures in your book and on the web! If you could guide me in what you saw that led you to conclude she was hybrid, I can be more discriminating if I try again.
Since you mentioned the virtual impossibility of getting full 100% yellow faced here in the US, would you suggest I try to get them from Peru or Europe instead? How hard would it be to do this? I read the plight of Henry (how saaad!!!) but I am wondering if there have bee nany changes since you wrote it in 2006... any laws changed yet or who do I have to harass?? (haha!)
On another note, I am also very interested in the Lucida Pacific, but seem to have a hard time finding 100% full that have not been crossed. In your article you mentioned that you had started the Lucida breeding with birds caught in the wild, I was wondering if you still had availability of these? I would love to be able to conserve these.
Thanks for taking me under your wing, so to speak!! : )
Kind regards,
Didi
Dear Didi:
Unfortunately, there are many species of parrotlets in the US which are pretty much genetically dead – Yellow Face are certainly one since they were never imported in large numbers. Mexicans are almost gone since they were difficult to breed in the first place. Blue Wings are also on that list – most people finding them difficult to breed and they were considered too nervous and flighty to be good pets so after almost 20 years of non-importation, these species are pretty much gone from US aviculture. Fortunately, there are tons of them in Europe and Asia so even if Americans can’t breed them, the species’ will survive. Also none of these parrotlets are highly endangered in the wild.
I don’t know how I can explain to you the differences in a YF/Pacific hybrid since you have never seen a pure YF. Its kind of like describing a Catalina macaw (blue & gold hybridized with a scarlet) if you have never seen a blue and gold macaw. Mainly its size – YF are much larger than Pacifics about the size of a PF lovebird, the structure – YF weigh about 30 grams or more than Pacifics, placement of color – the yellow is supposed to go from the crown of the forehead around the entire face including cheeks and chin, down the throat, the entire chest, belly and all the way to the tail and it is a pure deep yellow and not that washed out greenish yellow. It is a deep, deep bright yellow. Finally, the beak doesn’t have enough black on the upper mandible nor is it dark enough. The entire upper mandible should be dark black. So while there is YF in both birds, one is at least 3 generations of hybridizing with Pacifics, the other could have had one Pacific and one YF parent although I doubt it. It probably is 2 generations of hybridizing with Pacifics.
As for the lucida subspecies of the Pacific, these birds have been bred interchangeably since people first started breeding Pacifics and certainly since the WBCA ban in 1992. With the introduction of color mutations, they are all but gone although unlike the YF, they are not hybrids. They are called ‘generics’ because they are still Pacifics but have a commingled subspecies.
Sorry. I appreciate your offer but you cannot change the law. There are exceptions to it if you are a zoo, a US&FW approved foreign breeding facility or a breeding cooperative sponsored by a non-profit (which is what IPS tried to do but was unable due to people refusing to cooperate and the fact that the most of the birds were either hybrids or had TB or both). But the WBCA was written in accordance with the parameters set up by CITES (Convention in International Trade in Endangered Species) which the US is a signatory. They were written to protect species from becoming extinct in the wild. More and more countries are passing laws to prevent the sale of wild caught birds – the EU passed their own version several years ago. The only species of parrotlets that can be legally imported are visual color mutations of the Pacific parrotlet. Ironically, it is because of this exception that we have lost most of the other species from American aviculture as people dumped the rarer species in order to make more money when the new colors were imported.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
What a pleasure to "meet" you today! I am forwarding the pictures of my two hens, Lauper and Abby, Abby being the one I believe to be hybrid. I hope these are good enough but I can take new ones if need better pics.
I await your feedback and guidance. Again, many thanks for taking the time to help, it is greatly appreciated!
Kind Regards,
Didi
Thank you for the pictures. In my opinion, they are both hybrids between Pacifics and Yellow Face. Abby is probably about 90% Pacific; I’d say that Lauper has more YF – but is also a hybrid. I’d say probably 50%-60% Pacific. Hope this helps!
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
The Parrotlet Ranch, Owner, www.parrotletranch.com
WOW!!!
Thank you for getting back to me so quickly. I am disappointed but grateful for the information. I guess I should stop thinking about breeding them, even Lauper, if she's not yellow faced, the whole point of me breeding them was to try to help the conservation efforts of these little guys!
May I pick your brain as to what made you see the pacific in her? I know I am but a novice, and to my untrained eye, she looked like a full yellow faced, but haha, I've only ever seen them in pictures in your book and on the web! If you could guide me in what you saw that led you to conclude she was hybrid, I can be more discriminating if I try again.
Since you mentioned the virtual impossibility of getting full 100% yellow faced here in the US, would you suggest I try to get them from Peru or Europe instead? How hard would it be to do this? I read the plight of Henry (how saaad!!!) but I am wondering if there have bee nany changes since you wrote it in 2006... any laws changed yet or who do I have to harass?? (haha!)
On another note, I am also very interested in the Lucida Pacific, but seem to have a hard time finding 100% full that have not been crossed. In your article you mentioned that you had started the Lucida breeding with birds caught in the wild, I was wondering if you still had availability of these? I would love to be able to conserve these.
Thanks for taking me under your wing, so to speak!! : )
Kind regards,
Didi
Dear Didi:
Unfortunately, there are many species of parrotlets in the US which are pretty much genetically dead – Yellow Face are certainly one since they were never imported in large numbers. Mexicans are almost gone since they were difficult to breed in the first place. Blue Wings are also on that list – most people finding them difficult to breed and they were considered too nervous and flighty to be good pets so after almost 20 years of non-importation, these species are pretty much gone from US aviculture. Fortunately, there are tons of them in Europe and Asia so even if Americans can’t breed them, the species’ will survive. Also none of these parrotlets are highly endangered in the wild.
I don’t know how I can explain to you the differences in a YF/Pacific hybrid since you have never seen a pure YF. Its kind of like describing a Catalina macaw (blue & gold hybridized with a scarlet) if you have never seen a blue and gold macaw. Mainly its size – YF are much larger than Pacifics about the size of a PF lovebird, the structure – YF weigh about 30 grams or more than Pacifics, placement of color – the yellow is supposed to go from the crown of the forehead around the entire face including cheeks and chin, down the throat, the entire chest, belly and all the way to the tail and it is a pure deep yellow and not that washed out greenish yellow. It is a deep, deep bright yellow. Finally, the beak doesn’t have enough black on the upper mandible nor is it dark enough. The entire upper mandible should be dark black. So while there is YF in both birds, one is at least 3 generations of hybridizing with Pacifics, the other could have had one Pacific and one YF parent although I doubt it. It probably is 2 generations of hybridizing with Pacifics.
As for the lucida subspecies of the Pacific, these birds have been bred interchangeably since people first started breeding Pacifics and certainly since the WBCA ban in 1992. With the introduction of color mutations, they are all but gone although unlike the YF, they are not hybrids. They are called ‘generics’ because they are still Pacifics but have a commingled subspecies.
Sorry. I appreciate your offer but you cannot change the law. There are exceptions to it if you are a zoo, a US&FW approved foreign breeding facility or a breeding cooperative sponsored by a non-profit (which is what IPS tried to do but was unable due to people refusing to cooperate and the fact that the most of the birds were either hybrids or had TB or both). But the WBCA was written in accordance with the parameters set up by CITES (Convention in International Trade in Endangered Species) which the US is a signatory. They were written to protect species from becoming extinct in the wild. More and more countries are passing laws to prevent the sale of wild caught birds – the EU passed their own version several years ago. The only species of parrotlets that can be legally imported are visual color mutations of the Pacific parrotlet. Ironically, it is because of this exception that we have lost most of the other species from American aviculture as people dumped the rarer species in order to make more money when the new colors were imported.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely yours,
Sandee L. Molenda, C.A.S.
Sunday, March 21, 2010
Where Have the Parrotlet Subspecies Gone? Introducing "Generic" Parrotlets.
I always say there are two types of parrotlet keepers – those that had parrotlets before 1992 and those that started keeping them after 1992. Why is 1992 so important? Because that was the year that the U.S. Congress passed the Wild Bird Conservation Act which severely limited the importation of exotic birds into the country and all but put a stop on the importation of all wild-caught birds. While people have many opinions about the WBCA, the fact is that more than 18 years after its passage, a lot of things have changed. Some of these things have been good, Americans are certainly some of the most successful breeders of parrots in the world, other things have not been so good. Many species that were commonly kept, gradually disappeared. The most notable are the Brotogerius species such as Canary-Winged and Grey-Cheeked parakeets. Another thing that has largely disappeared is subspecies of most species of parrot. This also includes almost all the pure forms of the subspecies previously found in parrotlet species.
At the end of 1992, a shipment of Spectacled parrotlets were imported into the U.S. just before the WBCA was passed. The newly-formed International Parrotlet Society realized that the probability of obtaining more Spectacleds was non-existent so a small group of very dedicated breeders formed the first IPS breeding cooperative to ensure the establishment of this species in the United States. The breeders who participated came from different parts of the country. Some were in California, some were in Florida and some were in the Mid-West, mostly in Michigan.
Fortunately, many breeders were successful with the first breeding of these parrotlets, as Spectacleds turned out to be rather prolific breeders. Like most parrotlet species, they had no set breeding season and, under the right conditions, bred year-round. Breeders began working together to exchange chicks so that a viable genetic pool could be established in order to minimize inbreeding as much as possible.
One thing that Spectacled breeders soon discovered is that, unlike Pacifics or Green Rumps, the males’ coloring, especially on the rump and around the eyes, did not develop until the birds went through their first or even second molts. At that time, most of the breeders got together once or twice a year at conventions so they could exchange birds. It was not until time had passed and the parrotlets matured, that breeders realized the birds did not look the same. It was not because the birds were hybridized or were color mutations, it was because they were different subspecies. This was verified by checking the drawings and descriptions as written in the “Bible” of parrot identification, Parrots of the World.
This created a moral and biological dilemma for both Spectacled breeders and the International Parrotlet Society. Should the breeders concentrate on preserving these subspecies in their ‘pure’ forms or should they work to establish the species in American aviculture. There was an extremely limited amount of stock to work with, less than 30 Spectacleds had been imported in total. Also, the Spectacleds that were originally imported were domestic stock that came from Europe, not wild-caught birds. There were no guarantees as to what their pedigrees were and no way of knowing whether or not the subspecies had been crossed before they were ever imported into the US. More importantly, many breeders had already set up their pairs and were not anxious to break them up as they were breeding second and even third generations of Spectacleds. The breeders and IPS agreed that, under these circumstances, it was better to establish the species with the healthiest, unrelated stock as possible and not to try and keep the subspecies pure. Now, 18 years later, we have Spectacleds aplenty in the United States, so much so they are sold into the pet trade, much to the delight of many Spectacled parrotlet owners today.
The same biological changes in subspecies have pretty much happened to all the parrots that have been domestically bred in the United States. Eclectus parrots, Senegals, lories, conures, even long-lived species such as macaws and the large cockatoos have almost no pure subspecies left since the passage of the WBCA.
Many people who had parrotlets in the early 1990’s did not realize there were different species let alone subspecies. IPS spent most of its time trying to educate people on identification of species to avoid hybridization. Identification of subspecies was largely used to help people figure out what species they had so people would not breed Green Rumps with Pacifics or Blues Wings with Mexicans.
Unlike the larger species of parrots, our tiny little parrotlets are birds that most species mature and produce offspring at a year of age. Almost 20 generations of parrotlets have been produced since the WBCA was passed. In birds such as Green Rumps, many of those countries stopped exporting even earlier – the subspecies deliciosus was the first to have importation stopped back in the mid-1980’s. For years, many breeders did not realize there were two different subspecies of Pacifics so those birds were regularly bred together. Blue Wingeds and Mexican parrotlets were so difficult to breed that if you got a male and female to produce, no one cared if they were two different subspecies.
So where does that leave us today? It leaves us with beautiful, healthy species of Spectacleds, Pacifics and Green Rumps that are available to breeders and pet owners at reasonable prices. However, the price of that is the loss of pure subspecies in most if not all parrotlet species. These commingled subspecies have a biological term and are called “generic” subspecies. Unlike a “hybrid”, which is the breeding of two separate species, such as Green Rump and Pacific, “generics” are the same species but are a mix of subspecies. This is why chicks from the same parents look different. Some Green Rumps may be very tiny like the deliciousus and some can be bigger like viridissimus. Why some Pacific hens have blue on their rumps, even in the color mutations, and some do not. Unlike recessive mutations, subspecies’ characteristics will be passed on to the offspring.
It is important to remember that these are not bad things, it is just the way things are. Had breeders not combined these various subspecies, all parrotlet species, except for possibly Pacifics, would no longer exist in American aviaries. The birds would have been inbred and in all likelihood, simply died out as they got progressively genetically weaker. Any species that survived would be in such small numbers they would be prohibitively expensive and certainly there would be few, if any, color mutations available. After all, color mutations were placed on the Captive-Bred List available for importation by the hard work of the members of the International Parrotlet Society. The government was receptive to the listing in large part because of the success of IPS’ breeders in establishing long-term, captive-bred, species of parrotlets in the United States.
So the next time you see deliciosus Green Rumps or lucida Pacifics, realize that the bird is most probably a generic that exhibits the traits of that subspecies but probably is not a pure subspecies. But that is all right – its very existence proves that the right decisions were made and that Americans will be able to have beautiful, healthy species of parrotlets available for generations to come.
At the end of 1992, a shipment of Spectacled parrotlets were imported into the U.S. just before the WBCA was passed. The newly-formed International Parrotlet Society realized that the probability of obtaining more Spectacleds was non-existent so a small group of very dedicated breeders formed the first IPS breeding cooperative to ensure the establishment of this species in the United States. The breeders who participated came from different parts of the country. Some were in California, some were in Florida and some were in the Mid-West, mostly in Michigan.
Fortunately, many breeders were successful with the first breeding of these parrotlets, as Spectacleds turned out to be rather prolific breeders. Like most parrotlet species, they had no set breeding season and, under the right conditions, bred year-round. Breeders began working together to exchange chicks so that a viable genetic pool could be established in order to minimize inbreeding as much as possible.
One thing that Spectacled breeders soon discovered is that, unlike Pacifics or Green Rumps, the males’ coloring, especially on the rump and around the eyes, did not develop until the birds went through their first or even second molts. At that time, most of the breeders got together once or twice a year at conventions so they could exchange birds. It was not until time had passed and the parrotlets matured, that breeders realized the birds did not look the same. It was not because the birds were hybridized or were color mutations, it was because they were different subspecies. This was verified by checking the drawings and descriptions as written in the “Bible” of parrot identification, Parrots of the World.
This created a moral and biological dilemma for both Spectacled breeders and the International Parrotlet Society. Should the breeders concentrate on preserving these subspecies in their ‘pure’ forms or should they work to establish the species in American aviculture. There was an extremely limited amount of stock to work with, less than 30 Spectacleds had been imported in total. Also, the Spectacleds that were originally imported were domestic stock that came from Europe, not wild-caught birds. There were no guarantees as to what their pedigrees were and no way of knowing whether or not the subspecies had been crossed before they were ever imported into the US. More importantly, many breeders had already set up their pairs and were not anxious to break them up as they were breeding second and even third generations of Spectacleds. The breeders and IPS agreed that, under these circumstances, it was better to establish the species with the healthiest, unrelated stock as possible and not to try and keep the subspecies pure. Now, 18 years later, we have Spectacleds aplenty in the United States, so much so they are sold into the pet trade, much to the delight of many Spectacled parrotlet owners today.
The same biological changes in subspecies have pretty much happened to all the parrots that have been domestically bred in the United States. Eclectus parrots, Senegals, lories, conures, even long-lived species such as macaws and the large cockatoos have almost no pure subspecies left since the passage of the WBCA.
Many people who had parrotlets in the early 1990’s did not realize there were different species let alone subspecies. IPS spent most of its time trying to educate people on identification of species to avoid hybridization. Identification of subspecies was largely used to help people figure out what species they had so people would not breed Green Rumps with Pacifics or Blues Wings with Mexicans.
Unlike the larger species of parrots, our tiny little parrotlets are birds that most species mature and produce offspring at a year of age. Almost 20 generations of parrotlets have been produced since the WBCA was passed. In birds such as Green Rumps, many of those countries stopped exporting even earlier – the subspecies deliciosus was the first to have importation stopped back in the mid-1980’s. For years, many breeders did not realize there were two different subspecies of Pacifics so those birds were regularly bred together. Blue Wingeds and Mexican parrotlets were so difficult to breed that if you got a male and female to produce, no one cared if they were two different subspecies.
So where does that leave us today? It leaves us with beautiful, healthy species of Spectacleds, Pacifics and Green Rumps that are available to breeders and pet owners at reasonable prices. However, the price of that is the loss of pure subspecies in most if not all parrotlet species. These commingled subspecies have a biological term and are called “generic” subspecies. Unlike a “hybrid”, which is the breeding of two separate species, such as Green Rump and Pacific, “generics” are the same species but are a mix of subspecies. This is why chicks from the same parents look different. Some Green Rumps may be very tiny like the deliciousus and some can be bigger like viridissimus. Why some Pacific hens have blue on their rumps, even in the color mutations, and some do not. Unlike recessive mutations, subspecies’ characteristics will be passed on to the offspring.
It is important to remember that these are not bad things, it is just the way things are. Had breeders not combined these various subspecies, all parrotlet species, except for possibly Pacifics, would no longer exist in American aviaries. The birds would have been inbred and in all likelihood, simply died out as they got progressively genetically weaker. Any species that survived would be in such small numbers they would be prohibitively expensive and certainly there would be few, if any, color mutations available. After all, color mutations were placed on the Captive-Bred List available for importation by the hard work of the members of the International Parrotlet Society. The government was receptive to the listing in large part because of the success of IPS’ breeders in establishing long-term, captive-bred, species of parrotlets in the United States.
So the next time you see deliciosus Green Rumps or lucida Pacifics, realize that the bird is most probably a generic that exhibits the traits of that subspecies but probably is not a pure subspecies. But that is all right – its very existence proves that the right decisions were made and that Americans will be able to have beautiful, healthy species of parrotlets available for generations to come.
Labels:
Breeding Cooperatives,
Hybrids,
Parrotlets,
Parrots,
Spectacleds,
Subspecies,
WBCA
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